Comments on: The Tabular Data Enigma http://jeffreysambells.com/posts/2006/12/04/the-tabular-data-enigma/ It's Just Me Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:39:59 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: G-moon http://jeffreysambells.com/posts/2006/12/04/the-tabular-data-enigma/#comment-16323 G-moon Mon, 03 Dec 2007 00:37:33 +0000 http://jeffreysambells.com/posts/2006/12/04/the-tabular-data-enigma/#comment-16323 <p>I always use tables to eat my supper on. I find it offers a more comfortable and stable place to put my plate down on than the carpet on the floor.</p> I always use tables to eat my supper on. I find it offers a more comfortable and stable place to put my plate down on than the carpet on the floor.

]]> By: Don Catanzaro http://jeffreysambells.com/posts/2006/12/04/the-tabular-data-enigma/#comment-9029 Don Catanzaro Thu, 21 Jun 2007 21:24:10 +0000 http://jeffreysambells.com/posts/2006/12/04/the-tabular-data-enigma/#comment-9029 <p>I have to disagree with your conclusion "So from these vague characteristics, I conclude that there is no such thing as ‘tabular data’, and the phrase “Tables are for tabular dataâ€? is plain wrong. “Tabular dataâ€? as a noun doesn’t exist."</p> <p>You are correct, "Tabular data" as a <em>noun</em> does not exist - however data is a noun and tabular is the adjective that further defines the noun. Thus tabular data is</p> <p>http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tabular + http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/data</p> <p>If anything we are using sloppy English "Tables are for tabular data" as that is a circular reference because by definition tabular data are data that are in tables. We instead should say "Layouts are not for tables" or "Layouts are not tabular data and thus should not be in tables"</p> <p>-Don</p> I have to disagree with your conclusion “So from these vague characteristics, I conclude that there is no such thing as ‘tabular data’, and the phrase “Tables are for tabular dataâ€? is plain wrong. “Tabular dataâ€? as a noun doesn’t exist.”

You are correct, “Tabular data” as a noun does not exist - however data is a noun and tabular is the adjective that further defines the noun. Thus tabular data is

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tabular + http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/data

If anything we are using sloppy English “Tables are for tabular data” as that is a circular reference because by definition tabular data are data that are in tables. We instead should say “Layouts are not for tables” or “Layouts are not tabular data and thus should not be in tables”

-Don

]]> By: struschie http://jeffreysambells.com/posts/2006/12/04/the-tabular-data-enigma/#comment-805 struschie Tue, 19 Dec 2006 11:26:10 +0000 http://jeffreysambells.com/posts/2006/12/04/the-tabular-data-enigma/#comment-805 <p>great post..! ReDesigning a page of mine (about 1 1/2 years ago) forced me to redo the layout - that was clear. The second thing caused a similar discussion to a friend of mine (never heard of css - after body has to follow table - we all know this): How to mark up user-posts related to an item, when every post contains not only date of post, name, email, website (=> obviusly an list-job) but also "i want so sell" or "I want to buy" and a price for it? The user has to arange (e.g. only the sells, as he wants to buy or only posts newer than 1 Month) and then compare the prices. I choose the old table-way. And my friend asked me for the reason of the discussion. So I found myself in your position and like the way you wrote it very much. thanx 4 it</p> great post..! ReDesigning a page of mine (about 1 1/2 years ago) forced me to redo the layout - that was clear. The second thing caused a similar discussion to a friend of mine (never heard of css - after body has to follow table - we all know this):
How to mark up user-posts related to an item, when every post contains not only date of post, name, email, website (=> obviusly an list-job) but also “i want so sell” or “I want to buy” and a price for it?
The user has to arange (e.g. only the sells, as he wants to buy or only posts newer than 1 Month) and then compare the prices. I choose the old table-way. And my friend asked me for the reason of the discussion. So I found myself in your position and like the way you wrote it very much. thanx 4 it

]]> By: Jeffrey http://jeffreysambells.com/posts/2006/12/04/the-tabular-data-enigma/#comment-550 Jeffrey Sat, 09 Dec 2006 20:20:43 +0000 http://jeffreysambells.com/posts/2006/12/04/the-tabular-data-enigma/#comment-550 <p>A calendar is a layout mechanism for date based data. For CSS caledars see the semantic table version: http://veerle.duoh.com/index.php/blog/comments/a_css_styled_calendar/ or a list version: http://sandbox.mikepurvis.com/css/calendar/</p> A calendar is a layout mechanism for date based data. For CSS caledars see the semantic table version: http://veerle.duoh.com/index.php/blog/comments/a_css_styled_calendar/ or a list version: http://sandbox.mikepurvis.com/css/calendar/

]]> By: Whiteside http://jeffreysambells.com/posts/2006/12/04/the-tabular-data-enigma/#comment-540 Whiteside Sat, 09 Dec 2006 03:10:04 +0000 http://jeffreysambells.com/posts/2006/12/04/the-tabular-data-enigma/#comment-540 <p>I think I would go as far as to say that lists are a subset of tables.</p> <p>In a relational database table, you can, more generally, say that you have a "list" of rows. This is losing some meaning because you're knocking out one of the dimensions (the fields) that segregates and describes the now serialized data of each row.</p> <p>So what are calendars? Is the week number a criterion?</p> I think I would go as far as to say that lists are a subset of tables.

In a relational database table, you can, more generally, say that you have a “list” of rows. This is losing some meaning because you’re knocking out one of the dimensions (the fields) that segregates and describes the now serialized data of each row.

So what are calendars? Is the week number a criterion?

]]> By: Cameron Turner http://jeffreysambells.com/posts/2006/12/04/the-tabular-data-enigma/#comment-511 Cameron Turner Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:10:20 +0000 http://jeffreysambells.com/posts/2006/12/04/the-tabular-data-enigma/#comment-511 <p>Since I'm the colleague in question in this post I'd like to congratulate Jeff on an excellent answer to a tricky question. I agree that comparison of the data is one of the key attributes of "tabular data". However another useful metric I picked up after the same discussion was this:</p> <p>Tabular data can have the columns and rows reversed (reverse the X and Y axis) and still convey the same meaning and facilitate the same comparisons. Selecting which labels go on which axis is strictly a decision concerning the most EFFICIENT visual comparison of the data, but getting it backwards does not deny said comparison.</p> <p>Great post!</p> Since I’m the colleague in question in this post I’d like to congratulate Jeff on an excellent answer to a tricky question. I agree that comparison of the data is one of the key attributes of “tabular data”. However another useful metric I picked up after the same discussion was this:

Tabular data can have the columns and rows reversed (reverse the X and Y axis) and still convey the same meaning and facilitate the same comparisons. Selecting which labels go on which axis is strictly a decision concerning the most EFFICIENT visual comparison of the data, but getting it backwards does not deny said comparison.

Great post!

]]>